I understand your point and yes, it would help if the Catholic Church were more progressive, but this is a centuries old organization that is steeped in misogyny. I grew up in the Church, went to Catholic grade school and high school. I left the Church after school because I was no longer forced to go to Mass and I will not belong to any organization that treats women as inferior, i.e., not as good as men. However, I do believe that people should grow up with some sort organized teaching of moral and ethical guidelines so I had my daughter baptized, I went to Mass with her on Sundays before her CCD class (if you don't go to a Catholic school you have to go to CCD classes for religious education), went through her First Confession and First Communion, and was taking her to her classes for her Confirmation. My daughter is a lesbian, and one day, she came out of her CCD class and was angry and hurt because of the things her CCD teacher said about gays. I told her that she didn't have to put up with that and she said that she wasn't going back, which was fine with me. Like any organization, even though the current Pope is more rational about the gay community it is still a male-only organization that's run by people who who may, or may not be more rational, and there's no way to dismiss the horrendous history of pedophilia (my parish priest tried to groom me when I was around 13 but I knew enough to stay away from him). I've read quite a few articles lately about how more males are turning to religion, including the Catholic Church, mainly because they realize that organized religion is predominately male oriented and dominated organizations. Look at JD Vance, for example. These types of men love it because it feeds into their misogyny. I believe that some day women will be seen as equal to men, but not in my lifetime, and not anytime soon.
This reads like an article in America Media (of which I am also a subscriber). Not necessarily in conclusion but in detail; your knowledge of the RC hierarchy and the mathematics is both impressive and so informative.
Admittedly I am a lapsed practitioner but I appreciate your perspective on Francis and the importance of his impact on generations to come.
Not unlike watching our judiciary appts. play out these past years...
I too understand your point and think the Catholic Church being more moderate and less conservative is a good thing for Catholics and for the world. I was very impressed with Francis when he came in and seemed more humble and relatable than Benedict. I thought of it as the church progressing into a more open, reasonable body. (I grew up with a Catholic mother and nonreligious father, so I went to CCD for a year or two when I was just starting public school, then went to Catholic school on and off as I got older, ending up with 6 years of Catholic school education.) Growing up we never went to church consistently and as an adult I’ve never joined a Catholic Church. I don’t really consider myself a Catholic, but I know the church can have tremendous influence over those who do profess the faith, including my sister. I was therefore VERY disappointed in Francis’s lukewarm statement about the recent US presidential election where he said something to the effect that Americans should just “vote their conscience” and made it sound like we only had two bad choices to pick from. From a distance - and from one candidate having held the role previously - I’d think it would be very easy for Francis to see what a danger he posed to America and to the world and I expected he would speak out more forcefully against him. The fact that he didn’t makes me concerned about the influence of Opus Dei and other radical Catholic groups on the church as a whole, and not just on the effect of those organizations in the US since they seem to have a stranglehold here on our Supreme Court, Leonard Leo, Bill Barr and who knows how many other influential figures manipulating our politics.
Just here to ditto what Patricia said. Nowhere do I see rights or even representation of women. Pope Francis, in my humble raised-Catholic opinion, is the "best" of my lifetime, and he is, in Devil Wears Prada terms, a huge disappointment. But thanks for laying out the possibility of enduring yet another relatively progressive Pope who doesn't see women as equal in the eyes of the Lord. It doesn't work for me. And then add Leonard Leo and the destructive Catholic wing of the Supreme Court? The Church represents corruption and damage to me.
I understand your point and yes, it would help if the Catholic Church were more progressive, but this is a centuries old organization that is steeped in misogyny. I grew up in the Church, went to Catholic grade school and high school. I left the Church after school because I was no longer forced to go to Mass and I will not belong to any organization that treats women as inferior, i.e., not as good as men. However, I do believe that people should grow up with some sort organized teaching of moral and ethical guidelines so I had my daughter baptized, I went to Mass with her on Sundays before her CCD class (if you don't go to a Catholic school you have to go to CCD classes for religious education), went through her First Confession and First Communion, and was taking her to her classes for her Confirmation. My daughter is a lesbian, and one day, she came out of her CCD class and was angry and hurt because of the things her CCD teacher said about gays. I told her that she didn't have to put up with that and she said that she wasn't going back, which was fine with me. Like any organization, even though the current Pope is more rational about the gay community it is still a male-only organization that's run by people who who may, or may not be more rational, and there's no way to dismiss the horrendous history of pedophilia (my parish priest tried to groom me when I was around 13 but I knew enough to stay away from him). I've read quite a few articles lately about how more males are turning to religion, including the Catholic Church, mainly because they realize that organized religion is predominately male oriented and dominated organizations. Look at JD Vance, for example. These types of men love it because it feeds into their misogyny. I believe that some day women will be seen as equal to men, but not in my lifetime, and not anytime soon.
This reads like an article in America Media (of which I am also a subscriber). Not necessarily in conclusion but in detail; your knowledge of the RC hierarchy and the mathematics is both impressive and so informative.
Admittedly I am a lapsed practitioner but I appreciate your perspective on Francis and the importance of his impact on generations to come.
Not unlike watching our judiciary appts. play out these past years...
Appreciate you, Charlotte
"110 of the current 140 cardinal electors have been appointed by Pope Francis"
And many in places which have never had a cardinal, ever. The peripheries are strong with this pope.
I too understand your point and think the Catholic Church being more moderate and less conservative is a good thing for Catholics and for the world. I was very impressed with Francis when he came in and seemed more humble and relatable than Benedict. I thought of it as the church progressing into a more open, reasonable body. (I grew up with a Catholic mother and nonreligious father, so I went to CCD for a year or two when I was just starting public school, then went to Catholic school on and off as I got older, ending up with 6 years of Catholic school education.) Growing up we never went to church consistently and as an adult I’ve never joined a Catholic Church. I don’t really consider myself a Catholic, but I know the church can have tremendous influence over those who do profess the faith, including my sister. I was therefore VERY disappointed in Francis’s lukewarm statement about the recent US presidential election where he said something to the effect that Americans should just “vote their conscience” and made it sound like we only had two bad choices to pick from. From a distance - and from one candidate having held the role previously - I’d think it would be very easy for Francis to see what a danger he posed to America and to the world and I expected he would speak out more forcefully against him. The fact that he didn’t makes me concerned about the influence of Opus Dei and other radical Catholic groups on the church as a whole, and not just on the effect of those organizations in the US since they seem to have a stranglehold here on our Supreme Court, Leonard Leo, Bill Barr and who knows how many other influential figures manipulating our politics.
Just here to ditto what Patricia said. Nowhere do I see rights or even representation of women. Pope Francis, in my humble raised-Catholic opinion, is the "best" of my lifetime, and he is, in Devil Wears Prada terms, a huge disappointment. But thanks for laying out the possibility of enduring yet another relatively progressive Pope who doesn't see women as equal in the eyes of the Lord. It doesn't work for me. And then add Leonard Leo and the destructive Catholic wing of the Supreme Court? The Church represents corruption and damage to me.
I would never have known this without you, Charlotte. How interesting and yes, hopeful. Thank you.