Your timing is impeccable. I have shared this with my 18-year-old daughter. Her aunt told her last weekend that she was brainwashed because she is pro-choice. My daughter was so taken aback, and I think this will help give her talking points if she chooses to re-engage. Thank you, as usual.
Great work, well said. You have captured many aspects to the unfortunate lie being sold to many good hearted Christians and others alike, that forcing a birth onto a woman is somehow a good thing. It is, at it's core, also indicative of a much more real, and much more sinister motive that I believe lies at the core of the funding arms that create the many forms of manipulation being perpetrated against good Christians: at its core, being pro-life means embracing every aspect of life, not just the birth itself.
What's more, if excess births are forced upon women who would otherwise choose an abortion for their own reasons, then those same women are forced into the care of a child that they may not have the resources to care for. And this gets at the sinister truth: what happens to these children? Without social safety nets, which the right is so vehemently against in another sedicious lie, they fall into poverty and often become wage-slaves, unable to afford an education, in an underfunded school system, and their parents are often forced into the same because the cycle repeats. And these sinister actors funding pro-bithirism *need* those wage-slaves to fund their profiteering empires, unfettered by a decently-regulated market, but instead a "free" one, which will always be hungry for the poor souls it grinds into oblivion through extraordinarily exploitive business practices that extract the absolute maximum surplus labor value from their employees.
And every time I drive by a pro-bithirism sign, I get so mad thinking of all of this, thinking of all my friends and family who are being duped into this terrible lie. That they are actually forcing terrible existences into this world, because the entire American system has been twisted through corporate lobbying to enable this terrible engine of human exploitation.
Of course I must, begrudgingly, admit that this same system sometimes creates some of the best people, despite circumstances, and despite their many disadvantages, because a few brave souls break the cycle, push themselves out of the system as far as they can, and escape the stereotypes that haunt us all. My heart goes out to those people. But really, my heart goes out to everyone ever forced to birth a child because of a lie told to many good people.
Charlotte, as always, brings the truth 100%. I can only add my constant frustration and outrage that men are NEVER, EVER held accountable in any way for the pregnancies they cause. I read some time ago(apologies for not knowing the author) that every time a girl or woman becomes a mother, a man becomes a father. EXACTLY. Show me any anti-abortion legislation that holds the man who caused the pregnancy in any way responsible. Doesn’t exist, and it infuriates me.
Thank you so much for being so articulate on the subject. I've been a similar position years ago and wish I had had the words and confidence to engage.
Side note: I was a church treasurer for many years and I cannot count how many times I had the following conversation:
"It's the First Amendment right of anyone in the church to talk about politics, even from the pulpit and representing the church."
"That's fine, you and everyone else, including the pastor, have the right of free speech. However, the church voluntarily signed an agreement with the IRS to not engage in political advocacy in exchange for non-profit no-tax status, and do we really want to get into a fight with the IRS?"
I feel this is probably a safe space to share that my fear of the pro-life movement that now terrifies me came about about 2 years ago. I was having lowlights put in my hair with my hairdresser of 30+ years. My daughter encouraged me to go to my appointment and not cancel last minute because it’s a 6 hour appointment and like I said 30+ year friendship. When I arrived at my appointment she had a political sign in the yard supporting the abortion ban proposition on our state ballot. My dilemma was my daughter was having a D&C that day because she was miscarrying twins. I thought surely I could change her mind, she had known my daughter since she was 4. But she was so strong in her belief that doctors would never use laws like those to keep women from the healthcare they needed, she shouldn’t change her vote. It was an excruciating 6 hours. I was not understanding this friend of mine being so rigid, while feeling the pain and loss and worry for what my daughter was going through. My daughter came through and thankfully voters in California voted overwhelmingly to keep Abortion a right here. But it also had a profound effect on me to try to fiercely protect women’s health wherever I can! It’s no one’s business what decisions you make with your doctor, EVER!!!!
Thank you so much for this. As an atheist, I don’t understand, but completely respect your faith. I feel many of us “godless” people are more Christian than those who profess to be. Their hypocrisy is infuriating. They only care about “babies” when they are in a womb. Once they are born, they can’t be bothered. I fear for what is to come if the Right wins.
"...an implicit, religious need to shame and control women's sexuality." Yes, and every organized religion has the same issue with women. These religions don't shame and try to control men's sexuality, only women's, and they all have problems with anything involving sex, sexuality, sexual identity, etc. These religions have been, and still are, dominated and controlled by men who tend to downplay or ignore the pedophiles, rapists, and other men who commit sexual assault and sexual discrimination. This attitude is also systemically embedded in all of our institutions and being loudly and publicly anti-abortion is only the latest iteration.
(y'all can tell me if the following analysis is wackadoodle, but I gotta write it down, 'cuz it keeps coming back to me and bothering me)
In Raising Arizona, one of the more memorable lines is: "Edwina's insides were a rocky place where my seed could find no purchase." (this is the form most quoted on the net)
I'm sure I laughed (nervously?) when I heard it, but it also haunted me and crystallized thoughts that had been floating around in my head for years.
In Genesis 38, what Onan spills is his seed (זָּרַע - zera) - the same word used for the seed of a fruit. But that's the wrong analogy (partly because people didn't know any better at the time). It's more like pollen than a seed - it's the male gamete, with the ovum doing most of the heavy lifting. So there's this biblical notion of the woman as the receptacle, carrying the man's seed. And if anything goes wrong, it's the woman's fault for not tending the seed correctly (at least from a male, biblical point of view).
This fostered a notion of spermist preformationism (a term that I didn't know until recently - thankyou wikipedia). After the invention of the microscope, but before modern understanding Nicolaas Hartsoeker produced a famous illustration of this concept: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaas_Hartsoeker#/media/File:Preformation.GIF
I'm not sure if any modern male fundamentalists believe in spermist preformationism, but it sure seems like the traditions around this idea have shaped their thinking (and attitudes and emotions)
I can't speak to what's in the Bible or what Nicolaas Hartsoeker believed, but I do know that historically, women have been blamed, shamed, punished and/or cast out for not getting pregnant, not having a male (i.e., see Henry VIII), having a disabled child or a stillbirth. Now, in red states, women are seeing this same treatment for having miscarriages. It's important to vote Blue; it's important to elect women. There's a fascinating article in The Atlantic about how science is finally doing research on the placenta and how it helps or hurts with a pregnancy. A placenta is a temporary organ the study of which has been ignored for two reasons: a) it's difficult to study pregnant women since you don't want to harm the woman or the fetus; b) it's all about women.
The criminalization of miscarriage is very disturbing, even to me as a guy with no kids (and having had no intent of ever having any - vasectomized long ago). The sense of ownership and entitlement that many men feel about their "seed" in their wife's womb (or any guy's seed in any womb) seems absolutely feral to me (and not in a good way).
Almost as disturbing is women in some Christian communities acceding to this idea. Are they thinking "God knows I am virtuous and won't let me miscarry. And if I do miscarry, the law will recognize that I am virtuous and not prosecute me" ?? And if they're not thinking this, why don't they get out and vote (abusive spouse seems like one possibility, certainly). And if they are thinking that virtue and innocence will save them, I wish they would give more thought to the number of misogynistic men in the world who have the legal power to make their lives miserable for no good reason and are just looking for women to blame (still mad about that Eve thing in the garden?).
This points out another one of those holes in "pro-life" logic. If you really believe that life begins at conception (and think of conception as fertilization), wouldn't you be funding research on first-trimester miscarriages? Like, to the tune of billions of $ over decades, starting even before Roe v. Wade? Many blastocysts never take root in the uterine wall (I haven't yet read the Atlantic article, but it's a pretty good bet that's part of what's discussed there). Where are the grave markers for these failed blastocysts? I've certainly seen "graves" for aborted fetuses when driving through the Carolinas (marked as such and clustered in improbable density - to make up for all the women who didn't put up a grave marker for their aborted fetus?).
Does anybody else follow Dr. Jennifer Bird? She's a bible scholar who (finds and) takes a more woman-positive, sex-positive and LGBTQ-positive approach to the bible. Interesting stuff. She's an animated and enjoyable presenter, especially when she's in conversation with Derek Lambert of Mythvision (warning: Mythvision is not for everybody - it freely embraces atheists, agnostics and Christians all at once, which may cause brainhurt for some people. But you'll know in a few seconds if it works for you)
[later edit: I got some time to read the Atlantic article and watch the associated video (actually, I read it at Undark https://undark.org/2024/05/29/placenta-stillbirth-research-understudied/ , which is where The Atlantic got it). I had guessed it would be about the initial formation of the placenta, but it was more focused on pathologies in the development of the placenta. Very interesting article. The blastocyst makes a brief appearance at about 32 seconds into the video, but is not a topic of discussion.]
Thank you for this. You put into words what I have been thinking and feeling about the anti-choice movement. I have always believed that anti-choice people are all about controlling women. It has nothing to do with “saving the unborn.”
If the government is going to force women to have unwanted children, then the government should guarantee weekly support payments for that child until they are 18 years old. Nothing else makes sense
As usual, you've covered the points clearly, thoroughly and accessibly. And I'm pretty much totally aligned with what you said - as though you read my mind and then said it better than I would've:-)
Fantastic! Hits on all the right points with the right tone. Sadly, if I share this with any of my conservative friends, I believe it will have zero impact.
Your timing is impeccable. I have shared this with my 18-year-old daughter. Her aunt told her last weekend that she was brainwashed because she is pro-choice. My daughter was so taken aback, and I think this will help give her talking points if she chooses to re-engage. Thank you, as usual.
“Judging others is a lot easier than helping others,” - a brilliant insight. Once again, I am in awe of your talent.
Great work, well said. You have captured many aspects to the unfortunate lie being sold to many good hearted Christians and others alike, that forcing a birth onto a woman is somehow a good thing. It is, at it's core, also indicative of a much more real, and much more sinister motive that I believe lies at the core of the funding arms that create the many forms of manipulation being perpetrated against good Christians: at its core, being pro-life means embracing every aspect of life, not just the birth itself.
What's more, if excess births are forced upon women who would otherwise choose an abortion for their own reasons, then those same women are forced into the care of a child that they may not have the resources to care for. And this gets at the sinister truth: what happens to these children? Without social safety nets, which the right is so vehemently against in another sedicious lie, they fall into poverty and often become wage-slaves, unable to afford an education, in an underfunded school system, and their parents are often forced into the same because the cycle repeats. And these sinister actors funding pro-bithirism *need* those wage-slaves to fund their profiteering empires, unfettered by a decently-regulated market, but instead a "free" one, which will always be hungry for the poor souls it grinds into oblivion through extraordinarily exploitive business practices that extract the absolute maximum surplus labor value from their employees.
And every time I drive by a pro-bithirism sign, I get so mad thinking of all of this, thinking of all my friends and family who are being duped into this terrible lie. That they are actually forcing terrible existences into this world, because the entire American system has been twisted through corporate lobbying to enable this terrible engine of human exploitation.
Of course I must, begrudgingly, admit that this same system sometimes creates some of the best people, despite circumstances, and despite their many disadvantages, because a few brave souls break the cycle, push themselves out of the system as far as they can, and escape the stereotypes that haunt us all. My heart goes out to those people. But really, my heart goes out to everyone ever forced to birth a child because of a lie told to many good people.
Charlotte, as always, brings the truth 100%. I can only add my constant frustration and outrage that men are NEVER, EVER held accountable in any way for the pregnancies they cause. I read some time ago(apologies for not knowing the author) that every time a girl or woman becomes a mother, a man becomes a father. EXACTLY. Show me any anti-abortion legislation that holds the man who caused the pregnancy in any way responsible. Doesn’t exist, and it infuriates me.
I saw this bumper sticker 30 years ago and it really stuck with me (mentally - I didn't buy one for my car):
Don’t like abortions?
Get a vasectomy
(more snark than political dialog, but it makes its point succinctly and well)
Thank you so much for being so articulate on the subject. I've been a similar position years ago and wish I had had the words and confidence to engage.
Side note: I was a church treasurer for many years and I cannot count how many times I had the following conversation:
"It's the First Amendment right of anyone in the church to talk about politics, even from the pulpit and representing the church."
"That's fine, you and everyone else, including the pastor, have the right of free speech. However, the church voluntarily signed an agreement with the IRS to not engage in political advocacy in exchange for non-profit no-tax status, and do we really want to get into a fight with the IRS?"
I feel this is probably a safe space to share that my fear of the pro-life movement that now terrifies me came about about 2 years ago. I was having lowlights put in my hair with my hairdresser of 30+ years. My daughter encouraged me to go to my appointment and not cancel last minute because it’s a 6 hour appointment and like I said 30+ year friendship. When I arrived at my appointment she had a political sign in the yard supporting the abortion ban proposition on our state ballot. My dilemma was my daughter was having a D&C that day because she was miscarrying twins. I thought surely I could change her mind, she had known my daughter since she was 4. But she was so strong in her belief that doctors would never use laws like those to keep women from the healthcare they needed, she shouldn’t change her vote. It was an excruciating 6 hours. I was not understanding this friend of mine being so rigid, while feeling the pain and loss and worry for what my daughter was going through. My daughter came through and thankfully voters in California voted overwhelmingly to keep Abortion a right here. But it also had a profound effect on me to try to fiercely protect women’s health wherever I can! It’s no one’s business what decisions you make with your doctor, EVER!!!!
You're just the best. That is all.
Thank you so much for this. As an atheist, I don’t understand, but completely respect your faith. I feel many of us “godless” people are more Christian than those who profess to be. Their hypocrisy is infuriating. They only care about “babies” when they are in a womb. Once they are born, they can’t be bothered. I fear for what is to come if the Right wins.
"...an implicit, religious need to shame and control women's sexuality." Yes, and every organized religion has the same issue with women. These religions don't shame and try to control men's sexuality, only women's, and they all have problems with anything involving sex, sexuality, sexual identity, etc. These religions have been, and still are, dominated and controlled by men who tend to downplay or ignore the pedophiles, rapists, and other men who commit sexual assault and sexual discrimination. This attitude is also systemically embedded in all of our institutions and being loudly and publicly anti-abortion is only the latest iteration.
(y'all can tell me if the following analysis is wackadoodle, but I gotta write it down, 'cuz it keeps coming back to me and bothering me)
In Raising Arizona, one of the more memorable lines is: "Edwina's insides were a rocky place where my seed could find no purchase." (this is the form most quoted on the net)
I'm sure I laughed (nervously?) when I heard it, but it also haunted me and crystallized thoughts that had been floating around in my head for years.
In Genesis 38, what Onan spills is his seed (זָּרַע - zera) - the same word used for the seed of a fruit. But that's the wrong analogy (partly because people didn't know any better at the time). It's more like pollen than a seed - it's the male gamete, with the ovum doing most of the heavy lifting. So there's this biblical notion of the woman as the receptacle, carrying the man's seed. And if anything goes wrong, it's the woman's fault for not tending the seed correctly (at least from a male, biblical point of view).
This fostered a notion of spermist preformationism (a term that I didn't know until recently - thankyou wikipedia). After the invention of the microscope, but before modern understanding Nicolaas Hartsoeker produced a famous illustration of this concept: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaas_Hartsoeker#/media/File:Preformation.GIF
I'm not sure if any modern male fundamentalists believe in spermist preformationism, but it sure seems like the traditions around this idea have shaped their thinking (and attitudes and emotions)
I can't speak to what's in the Bible or what Nicolaas Hartsoeker believed, but I do know that historically, women have been blamed, shamed, punished and/or cast out for not getting pregnant, not having a male (i.e., see Henry VIII), having a disabled child or a stillbirth. Now, in red states, women are seeing this same treatment for having miscarriages. It's important to vote Blue; it's important to elect women. There's a fascinating article in The Atlantic about how science is finally doing research on the placenta and how it helps or hurts with a pregnancy. A placenta is a temporary organ the study of which has been ignored for two reasons: a) it's difficult to study pregnant women since you don't want to harm the woman or the fetus; b) it's all about women.
The criminalization of miscarriage is very disturbing, even to me as a guy with no kids (and having had no intent of ever having any - vasectomized long ago). The sense of ownership and entitlement that many men feel about their "seed" in their wife's womb (or any guy's seed in any womb) seems absolutely feral to me (and not in a good way).
Almost as disturbing is women in some Christian communities acceding to this idea. Are they thinking "God knows I am virtuous and won't let me miscarry. And if I do miscarry, the law will recognize that I am virtuous and not prosecute me" ?? And if they're not thinking this, why don't they get out and vote (abusive spouse seems like one possibility, certainly). And if they are thinking that virtue and innocence will save them, I wish they would give more thought to the number of misogynistic men in the world who have the legal power to make their lives miserable for no good reason and are just looking for women to blame (still mad about that Eve thing in the garden?).
This points out another one of those holes in "pro-life" logic. If you really believe that life begins at conception (and think of conception as fertilization), wouldn't you be funding research on first-trimester miscarriages? Like, to the tune of billions of $ over decades, starting even before Roe v. Wade? Many blastocysts never take root in the uterine wall (I haven't yet read the Atlantic article, but it's a pretty good bet that's part of what's discussed there). Where are the grave markers for these failed blastocysts? I've certainly seen "graves" for aborted fetuses when driving through the Carolinas (marked as such and clustered in improbable density - to make up for all the women who didn't put up a grave marker for their aborted fetus?).
Does anybody else follow Dr. Jennifer Bird? She's a bible scholar who (finds and) takes a more woman-positive, sex-positive and LGBTQ-positive approach to the bible. Interesting stuff. She's an animated and enjoyable presenter, especially when she's in conversation with Derek Lambert of Mythvision (warning: Mythvision is not for everybody - it freely embraces atheists, agnostics and Christians all at once, which may cause brainhurt for some people. But you'll know in a few seconds if it works for you)
[later edit: I got some time to read the Atlantic article and watch the associated video (actually, I read it at Undark https://undark.org/2024/05/29/placenta-stillbirth-research-understudied/ , which is where The Atlantic got it). I had guessed it would be about the initial formation of the placenta, but it was more focused on pathologies in the development of the placenta. Very interesting article. The blastocyst makes a brief appearance at about 32 seconds into the video, but is not a topic of discussion.]
Thank you for this. You put into words what I have been thinking and feeling about the anti-choice movement. I have always believed that anti-choice people are all about controlling women. It has nothing to do with “saving the unborn.”
If the government is going to force women to have unwanted children, then the government should guarantee weekly support payments for that child until they are 18 years old. Nothing else makes sense
Every word resonates. Thanks as always for your voice and for having the courage to use it.
As usual, you've covered the points clearly, thoroughly and accessibly. And I'm pretty much totally aligned with what you said - as though you read my mind and then said it better than I would've:-)
I thought I might have nothing to add and then I realized I'd read a story that I know most people haven't read. As a small bonus it's a Texas story. I found it deeply affecting. YMMV. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/01/roe-v-wades-secret-heroine-tells-her-story
Fantastic! Hits on all the right points with the right tone. Sadly, if I share this with any of my conservative friends, I believe it will have zero impact.
Amen!
Excellent. Thank you.